Seed Minting Discussion June 2021

A thread for discussing the upcoming mint.
Post the things you want to see fixed or added to the mint etc.

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Anything different or unique about the minting this month? E.g. are we going to be continuing our “loan” paybacks?

If I remember correctly, the fast/slow payout thing dictates 70% of the payment is paid out instantly, then 70% of the remaining 30% next month, then…
But I’m still not sure… @METADREAMER?

First, discourse recommends we all welcome you, so welcome! :rofl:

To me the most significant thing is that we establish firm processes for when and how we mint. I will do everything I can to leave the meeting with a non-hypothetical minting schedule that we’ll follow to the letter until such time as we reconvene to modify it.

This is a minimum standard for any form of employment, be it salaried, gig-based or whatever. If we’re throwing around terms like “future of work” in public, then we need to be at least as good at this as the “present of work.” Or at least not significantly worse.

I can’t tell my landlady I’m gonna pay her eventually. They don’t take promises at the grocery store either. There are obvious human impacts that basically ensure only those with a fair amount of funds in reserve can afford to devote their time to MetaGame.

We can talk about conviction or belief in the project all we like, but if I’ve got $500k at my disposal and you’re missing that ‘k’ at the end, it means I’m full of shit. I’ll be fine and you’re probably in deep shit.

The negative impacts on MetaGame itself shouldn’t be understated either. Beyond affecting people’s motivation to dig in deeper, we’re giving them really good reasons to neither hold nor plant seeds. If I have no idea when I’ll get paid again, it’s in my interest to build up a rainy day fund of reliable assets.

I’m not going to point any fingers at anybody about it and I hope nobody else does either. I think this can be quick and easy as the solution is both simple and self-evident. In fact, I think I just talked myself into laying it out below:

I’ll use Wednesdays for no particular reason other than I’ve always thought it was cool that it’s named for Odin (or Wotan, if you like.)

1st Wednesday of the month:
Today, we publish our calculation of the upcoming minting.

2nd Wednesday of the month:
Today is the final cut-off date to make any adjustments to this minting. Any changes requested after this date are not implemented until the following minting (~5 weeks from now.)

3rd Wednesday of the month:
Today is the expiry of the Aragon voting period - if still applicable - and Gnosis Signatories are standing by so that Seeds are ready to claim without any delay.

4th Wednesday of the month:
Today is the final day we count cred toward the next minting.

4th Thursday of the month:
Today is the first day we count cred toward the next next minting (~7 weeks from now.)

This could theoretically be an issue if February 28th happened to be a Wednesday, but thankfully next time that happens is 2024, which is a leap year. In February 2029, we’d have to shuffle something as the 4th Thursday comes before the 4th Wednesday.

Personally, I’m ok with kicking this can 8 years down the road. :man_shrugging:

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Love what Bagsie said! I’d like intiatives to be discussed so we can allocate for players who have gone the extra mile. I hope with the process nailed, as it will improve morale & motivation of the community.

In my lane

  • Guild Descriptions
  • The first Meme-a-thon
  • Some other things

I’d like to be included in my next mint. I plan on starting my planting this month too, so I’m ready to get this sign, sealed & delivered. I don’t want to get into any other ideas but I’d love some kind of Lending on seeds & payback seeds + interest via work. Im fortunate enough to live at home but I don’t see myself being in this position in 3-5months so I’d like to get this monthly! As a FT player, I think we’re going to be the glue to the project so having an on schedule mint, will help me personally in regards to reliable income. We have a great community & are underdogs in the space, supporting properly will have great outcomes in short & longterm.

Over & Out.

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Was in a rush to go to bed & forgot to answer the main part of the question lol
We’ll try to come up with & implement a minting schedule and XP Fairies led by @c0mput3rxz will try to decentralize as much of the process as possible so that @METADREAMER is no longer the central point of failure. Right now he’s set as the owner of the merkle distribution contract, so we’ll need to set that to be the multisig. After that, the only barrier to other people carrying out the mint will be knowledge.
But I think even with having him being the only one, he should be able to do a much better job if we do these threads where people add things in advance vs. after the calculation, so there’s less back & forth.

I’m not sure what the exact format should be & we can discuss it on Monday, but we should definitely streamline the process of people requesting for initiatives. Like, “I’m requesting an initiative for X because of Y with an XP weight of Z”. And we should probably be voting on adding these through #voting on discord. But I 100% agree people like you should get an initiative, you’ve been doing a great job!

Just to clarify, the multisig is the owner not me.

I feel like making it automated as possible is the best way to make it more regular. There’s a lot of manual steps that could be automated, just have to put in the work to do it. Slowly been doing that with the most annoying part being automated now (ETH address collection and linking in SourceCred), but more that can be done.

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Placing this here for posterity…these are my notes from our DAO minting and Strategy call:

DAO meeting on Minting and Strategy 05 July 2021

Attendees : Bacon, Bagholder Mcfomo III, Dave, DefileZebra, Gnomeski, Lahcen-KH, Luxumbra.eth, metaverde, penguin, sackofjoy, kyle stargarden, Misanth, peth, mushashi13, B positive, chair, FearlessThompopson, Michiel, tenfinney, tatey180, rohekbenitez, durgadas, Wonfiddy,

Summary :

Agenda:

  • Answer submitted questions
    • LAST MINTING
    • Can the [[initiatives]] in the future be discussed at least informally beforehand? Mentioning that “we should do them sometime” a couple of times over the span of 6 months can’t be justified as discussed. The result of non-communicating such information in advance may result in many active members being caught by surprise.
    • What are the exact weights that applied to each initiative and what is the timeframe? (since when and until when)
    • Is there an exact number we are trying to reach for each initiative?
    • What is the effect of new initiatives on the ongoing ones?
    • If we voted on the first calculation unanimously, why was the second one enacted?
    • Who controls the [[DoingGood]] wallet and how do we decide as a DAO what to do with the funds?
    • There was a mention of MetaGame receiving ~15k $ from Gitcoin-- Why? Where? Was it in GTC or ETH? What can MetaGame do with that?
  • Discuss minting sched
  • Pinpoint issues

Discussion:

  • Misanth will be recording
  • Champions Ring is cancelled for today
  • Goal: Do better next time
    • 3 initiatives regarding DAOs
  • What are the exact weights that applied to each initiative and what is the timeframe? (since when and until when?
    • What are the exact weights?
    • What is their timeframe?
    • Same as XP, add initiatives
      • 70% payout, then 70% of remaining then 70% of what’s left?
    • If you are inactive- you still get XP if you have an active initiative
  • What is the effect of new initiatives on the ongoing initiatives?
    • It’s a dilution factor, does not generate XP
  • Voting- If we voted on the first calculation unanimously, why was the second one enacted?
  • Sunday is the switchover day for each week within SourceCred
  • Penguin: In his absence, Penguin suspects that Metadreamer would say its all according to the SourceCred algorithm
    • SourceCred graph may help provide some clarity
  • Doing gud wallet
    • Purpose
      • Charity donations. Intended to be recurring, but they do decay
      • Peth: Idea was to put it up in the voting channel and vote on recipients
    • Will doing good expire or be perpetual?
      • No idea of length of time remains
  • Wouldn’t be better to separate out minting for initiatives for players?
    • But we can’t mint outside of SourceCred without creating antipatterns that undermine the cred algorithm
  • Doing gud fund
    • Hard to factor in grants or things we want to spend money on if we cannot budget them
    • DAO have common funds has been discussed, part of our bank built up through XP makes sense. Shouldn’t try to backfill. Single catch up payment
  • Peth- Adding initiatives didn’t have impact on seeds minted
  • Last question: 15k from gitcoin, was that matching and where did that go?
    • First 15k was from matching a year ago
    • In forum was mentioned ~40 Eth in DAO and the rest in the Balancer pool
    • GTC received worth ~14k
      • Needs to be some analysis done to determine how much was for each: Peth individually as an ambassador & moderation, and what is for MetaGame
  • Penguin on bagsie’s remarks and past contributors
    • Can we clean out initiatives- lifetime XP so they have rank but don’t still flow XP?
    • Peth- Initiates added creates fixed amount of XP
    • Reset XP? - no start a new counter for the season
    • Blow out residual?
    • Eliminate older entries from day-to-day entries
    • Lifetime XP regarded, but also some seasonality
  • Bagholder Mcfomo III-
    • Observes that their cred to seed ratio seems low compared to the ancient players
    • cred to Xp ratio is considered in the “balanced” allocation policy (25%)
      • The balanced allocation …… “Calculates grain per XP over all time and rewards to the lowest first, to strike balance”
      • reference: https://youtu.be/xV_b6_Gx-aw?t=920
  • Penguin speculates that it may also have to do with weight of the graph
    • building weights between graphs
    • resetting seasonal graph would allow active players to establish the gravity rather then fitting you into old graph
  • Michiel
    • Doesn’t require source cred changes, just display page change
    • Build on old code in github could revive an old player’s activity and flow some XP to someone inactive

Minting

  • Timeframe? First day of the season, first day of the month
    • Someone asked if we anticipate price pressure from more frequent minting (monthly/weekly)?
      • Monthly should be good
      • Gas would get even more expensive under weekly distributions
    • xDAI migration?
    • Some delay is preferable to streaming Seeds to help mitigate attacks
  • Bagholder Mcfomo III made this detailed schedule proposal in the forum:
    • Seed Minting Discussion June 2021
    • B has since figured out that the one anticipated issue in 2029 will not actually be any issue at all.
      • First weds of the month publish calculation
        • 2nd weds is the cut-off for dispute
      • 4th weds plus one day
    • Penguin: I don’t think we get to pick the day, SourceCred does its thing on weds
      • Another thing is if we are making changes up to the second weds
      • Seeds minted on the third weds 48-hour vote
      • What’s happening between the 3rd week and the other 4 weeks between the mint?
      • If I understood correctly, Bagholder explained that would be best to think of this as a 7 week schedule start to finish.
    • Misanth- too late for this minting already
    • XP cutoffs should be Sunday to align with SourceCred. Day 1 needs to be Monday
  • Penguin
    • Accounting
    • Better accounting of our budget
    • Expected budget of seed
      • Propose next x minting will be X seeds

Miro board Long term

We had an average of 30 active players per week over the month of June, which means there was 600 SEEDs per week in this distribution.

Here’s the initial allocation: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R96mksTuT9NTu0G6IFsrKhiiEFHrf5b9n-nq9DTdmRc/edit?usp=sharing

If there’s no red flags / issues I can put up the on chain vote tomorrow so we can get these minted and distributed before I leave for ETHCC on Friday.

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